Dear Liberaltarians

The anti-abortion faction in Congress was the last barrier to the Democrats' health insurance nationalization bill. They very nearly killed it. Social conservatives continue to be libertarians most powerful ally. When it comes to gun rights, federalism, and fiscal restraint, they are often reliable, and they turn out the vote.

Christians value freedom because they have a moral code that they take seriously and it often conflicts with the values of the technocrats in Washington. So they value being left alone.

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So they value being left

So they value being left alone.

But do they value leaving others alone? If not, they are dangerous bedfellows.

But do they value leaving

But do they value leaving others alone?

Not always. But the Supreme Court takes the Constitution's limits on religious legislation seriously. So in a country with our institutions, Jesus is a pretty good ally of freedom.

Gay marriage? Drug War?

Gay marriage? Drug War? Stem-cell research? War on Islam? Jesus's loudest and most politically influential followers are no allies of freedom.

Here, left-libertarian

Here, left-libertarian Charles Johnson makes the pro-choice argument against government health care. Money quote:

"Expanding government control of healthcare funding is anti-choice, anti-woman, and would represent the single biggest assault on women’s access to abortion in the last 30 years."

Uh, dude ...?

The link attaches to a discussion from last November, regarding the Stupak (sp?) Amendment that was excluded from the bill that just passed the House. Just FYI.

I'm aware of when the post

I'm aware of when the post was made, and I find it interesting that Radgeek predicted how influential the abortion controversy would be in determining the passage of a health care bill. It remains to be seen whether abortion won't serve as the wedge with which Republicans use to pick up Democratic congressional seats in the next election cycle, as a (partial) result of pro-life Dems outraged that they have to pay for other people's abortions. Women's health and reproductive medical choices remain an excellent reason why lefties should want to keep the government's hands off their medicine, if they want to keep the government's hands off womens' bodies. Every woman's uterus just became subject to electoral democratic decision making.

Information, please

[P]ro-life Dems outraged that they have to pay for other people's abortions.

How so?

Every woman's uterus just became subject to electoral democratic decision making.

How so?

Question #1: Stupak,

Question #1: Stupak, pre-flip-flop.

Question #2: This is not the last you will hear of the abortion controversy in the context of government health care. Think of all the conflict surrounding the teaching of religion and evolution in government schools. Get ready for culture wars, round 2.

As a Gay Libertarian...

go f*ck yourself.

If there were a powerful gay

If there were a powerful gay lobby that regularly torpedoed attempts at federal overreach, that would be awesome. But there's not. So we have to fight tyranny with the electorate we have.

It is true that I don't think gay marriage is more important than a free and wealthy economy, especially when it looks like half the country is going to get gay marriage at the state level anyway. As a result, I'd rather form alliances with people that support a free economy and not gay marriage than the other way around (although both would be great!). But that comes from the judgement that a free economy increases human welfare much more than gay marriage, which I think is a fair thing to believe. No matter how many times I f*ck myself, I will probably still think it a logical position to hold. Although, I do understand that gay couples who want to marry will probably feel the opposite way.

On the other hand, once gay people can marry that reform will probably stay and we can put the culture wars behind us. Civil rights gains seem much more sticky than economic rights gains. There's a certain appeal to fixing things that stay fixed.

The government tactic

The government tactic of pseudo-randomly redistributing wealth and handing out favors to some at the expense of others can make us all hate each other.

Are you from Nantucket?

No matter how many times I f*ck myself, I will probably still think it a logical position to hold.

Jeez -- f*cking yourself is impressive enough; holding that position is icing on the cake.

I don't think gay marriage

I don't think gay marriage is more important than a free and wealthy economy

I also don't think that gay marriage is more important than a free and wealthy economy. The reason for this is that I don't think marriage is more important than a free and wealthy economy.

I am barely bothered that the state refuses to give out marriage licenses to people trying to marry within their gender. The reason I am barely bothered by this is that I would be barely bothered if the state refused to give out marriage licenses altogether. In fact, if the state stopped giving out marriage licenses altogether, I might even celebrate.

True, but make sure that the

True, but make sure that the state also removes regulations that restrict immigration, inheritance, child custody, and critical care decisions to state-approved spouses.

As I understand it, the Commonwealth of Virginia will invalidate private contracts specifying some of these roles if they think it looks too gay. I'll leave it to someone more motivated to dig up the references--I just remember that several years ago the VA legislature had to have a special session because the gay invalidation inadvertently interfered with some contracts where two business partners were of the same gender.

Christians value freedom

Christians value freedom because they have a moral code that they take seriously and it often conflicts with the values of the technocrats in Washington.

I think the issue that Christians (as a self-defined group) fall way short of this statement is on war. Christian ideology has a lot to say about the evils of war, yet many Christian leaders and Christian individuals seem to dismiss the teachings of Christ and fall in line with the State position of war and empire.

I met Norman Horn at the Austrian Scholars Conference a couple weeks ago. Based on the discussions I had with him there, I'd recommend his site, Libertarian Christians, for any Christians struggling with this issue.

So are you a Christian

So are you a Christian taking your fellow Christians to task? Or are you a non-Christian bashing Christians for not being Christian enough?

As an atheist I don't have any problem with people picking and choosing from the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't think his moral guidance was all that great.

IANAC

I am not a Christian, though my farming, home-schooling, gun-toting, small-business, rural lifestyle generally means people assume I am. Many of my closest friends through life have been devout Christians.

Norman is, of course, a Christian, and we had a conversation about how disappointed he was with the stereotypical Religious Right attitude toward torture and war.

I tried to tone my comment so it would be respectful, but ultimately, I remain "a non-Christian bashing Christians for not being Christian enough." If you profess a faith, you should have the conviction to live by it, and not just refer to it as though it was your local sports team, conveniently separating your tribe from the evil others.

Me, I like spiritual questions, but I think most of the answers suck. As a matter of faith, I do not believe in the supernatural.

As Edward Gibbon noted,

"The various modes of worship which prevailed in the Roman world were all considered by the people as equally true; by the philosopher as equally false; and by the magistrate as equally useful...."

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire