We\'re not in Kansas, and thank the Fates for that

As dead-set as I am against teaching "Intelligent Design" in science classes, at least I can take consolation in the fact that it really doesn't matter much. It's not like some kid will have promise but then be exposed to "Intelligent Design" and never turn into a great biologist. Those who might have an impact will figure it out, and those who won't, well, it doesn't matter much anyway. Once the evangelical fad starts to decline, people can start admitting again how ridiculous this idea was.

I agree with Mill that in the long run, truth will win out over nonsense in open competition. I just hope that after the competition is settled, the nonsensical losing idea doesn't keep coming back in different disguises.

This post is what got me thinking tonight, and its conclusion is priceless:

Well, it is a shame, but really, no great harm done. Really. Science and technology will continue to advance anyway, no matter how low the standards in Kansas sink. Students from Kansas will still manage to get into colleges, at least if the colleges aren't too picky about preparation in science, and at least some of those students will come to realize how backward their public educations were, and they'll scramble to compensate. The students who don't will surely find work in fields other than science. If Kansas becomes scientifically irrelevant for a while, I'm sure that plenty of other places, inside the U.S. and out, can pick up the slack.

The state motto of Kansas is Ad astra per aspera: "To the stars through difficulties." But it doesn't sound like Kansas will be going to the stars any time soon, and in this case, the difficulties are of its own making.

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For those in the audience

For those in the audience not as hip to their fallacies, ignoratio elenchi is otherwise known as "the fallacy of the irrelevant thesis."

And so I agree with Joe- whether or not Kansas is open economically is irrelevant to whether teaching bollocks in science class is good for Kansan students or the state as a whole in the long run.

The state motto of Kansas is

The state motto of Kansas is Ad astra per aspera: “To the stars through difficulties.” But it doesn’t sound like Kansas will be going to the stars any time soon, and in this case, the difficulties are of its own making.

Then again, failure to reach the stars isn't that important to Kansans, seeing as how most of them believe stars are tiny lightbulbs that God installed in heaven for atmosphere.

Evolution is a theory - by

Evolution is a theory - by definition not a proven fact, else it would be the Law of Evolution. In my opinion teaching other additional theories should have the effect of first reinforcing the vast array of scientific procedure (how a theory is developed, tested, proven, etc.) and second encouraging students to develop their own theories. Opening minds is never a bad thing - and questioning accepted scientific principles is how we expand science, also never a bad thing.

Tiffany, ...Opening minds is

Tiffany,

...Opening minds is never a bad thing...

That depends on the toxicity of the detergent added while the lid is held open.

Regards, Don

I believe this quote is

I believe this quote is Gould:

Moreover, "fact" does not mean "absolute certainty." The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Tiffany, It's referred to as

Tiffany,

It's referred to as "the theory of evolution" by the religious right and by news media, but it's "the law of evolution" to biologists. And evolution isn't even the controversial part; the controversial part is the mechanism. When you hear "the theory of evolution by natural selection," that means the attempt to explain evolution, which no one can deny and remain credible, by the mechanism of natural selection.

As a Christian, I believe a

As a Christian, I believe a lot of weird stuff, but the things that always drives me up the wall is that I see no need for a Christian to reject evolution on the basis of it being incompatible with Christian teaching. And a Catholic Bishop just made this same point just a few days ago...

Anyway, the ridiculousness of rejecting evolution strikes me as one of the more benign bits of B.S. that gets crammed down your throat in the government schools - in them, I was taught many other falsehoods that have much more damaging consequences for a society that believes them.

There is much to be done!

I for one welcome the touch

I for one welcome the touch of his Noodly Appendage. Pastafarians unite!

It is times like these that the decision to pursue education as a lifestyle choice in the comfort of our own home feels right.:dunce:

How many smug leftists are

How many smug leftists are smiling now that a school board has finally gone the other way and imposed a program that is objectionable to *them*? There's no difference between this kansas decision and countless decisions all over the country where a school has ignored the wishes of parents and implemented a curriculum that the parents find objectionable.

Public schooling is a vile practice and this kansas situation simply confirms that.

nmg

Anymore elephant hurling

Anymore elephant hurling around here and people are going to get hurt.

"There’s no difference

"There’s no difference between this kansas decision and countless decisions all over the country where a school has ignored the wishes of parents and implemented a curriculum that the parents find objectionable."

Right because children are property of their parents yeah.

"How many smug leftists are

"How many smug leftists are smiling now that a school board has finally gone the other way and imposed a program that is objectionable to them?"

You mean state board of education. School boards in the U.S., which operate at a local level, tend to promote right-wing causes and have frequently endorsed creationism and its successors in the classroom for decades (see, e.g., Dover, PA--where the intelligent design-promoting school board just got voted out in a clean sweep).

Most, in fact almost all

Most, in fact almost all scientific advance is not resisted (excepting by very small groups). Newton is not opposed. Einstein is not opposed. The quantum theorists are not opposed. As far as I know, no one claims that DNA does not exist. Evolution is not even opposed as a theory of observable adaptation in the contemporary world, but is rather opposed only as a theory about what happened in the distant past.

Because it is about the distant past, Darwin's theory of prehistoric evolution is not as useful as other fields of biology, such as molecular biology, and not as useful as other sciences which concern themselves with present-day observables. High tech medicine is based on the study and manipulation of biological systems today, not so much on the resolution of the question of whether we are literally related to the apes through a common ancestor long ago or just resemble them very closely.

The main importance of the theory of natural selection is that it explains, and explains away, the purposefulness of things, and therefore buries the deities suppoedly responsible for creation once and for all by rendering them irrelevant. Intelligent design is modest: it wants to carve out *some* place for God, or rather for irreducible puposefulness, so that God (elemental purpose) is not completely removed from the picture. It is doomed to failure but it is nevertheless modest in its aims, which is simply to defend the idea that there is a God and He matters. It is defensive, and it is defending the last small scrap of territory where God (they hope) might still exist and matter. Those who oppose intelligent design reject this project; thus they reject the idea that God the Creator might exist and matter in any respect at all. The struggle is between those who would preserve some small remnant of religion and those who would obliterate religion.

Some people claim that they can believe in God and at the same time accept evolution, which shows that God is irrelevant. Perhaps they can but theirs is a religion vastly different from what the vast majority of people believe in. The world is still as religious as it is because most people do not reaaly understand Darwin.

The result in Dover, PA

The result in Dover, PA gives me a bit more faith in the capability of my fellow citizens to distinguish sense from nonsense.

Kansas is doing just fine.

Kansas is doing just fine. According to data from the Pacific Research Institute, Kansas ranks #1 among states in economic freedom.

http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/entrep/2004/econ_freedom/08_results.html

"Kansas is doing just fine.

"Kansas is doing just fine. According to data from the Pacific Research Institute, Kansas ranks #1 among states in economic freedom."

ignoratio elenchi

Tiffany, I agree that since

Tiffany,

I agree that since it's merely a theory, alternatives to evolution should be given equal time.... and while we are at it, why should the Heliocentric Theory enjoy monopoly? I demand that geo-centric theory should be given equal time.

May be you can enlighten me on this - what is the alternative to Theory of Gravitation? May be we should come up with one. After all, if we can pull "Intelligent Design" out of the Creationism hat....

And then, on to about Set Theory, and then Quantum Theory, Theory of Electromagnetism, Electrical Circuit Theory.... gee, the amazing amount of theories those horrible scientists have made us believe are true! :wall:

Ramki

Science isn't just important

Science isn't just important to kids who will become great scientists. Science is about experimentation, making judgements, predictions, and critical thinking. While kids in Kansas who have good science teachers will be largely unaffected by this, kids who have science teachers who just blindly follow the curriculum won't.

A big part of why libertarianism is not popular is because the public is not well educated. They do not have the critical thinking skills required to judge the status quo versus the unknown; they do not know how to separate reason from lies and the supernatural. The place where most kids learn such things in the classroom is in science class.

All I need to see to know that, "those who have an impact will figure it out," is wrong, is our beloved President.